Hello,
I was hoping if someone could give me some help or advice on finding a job. I currently work as an assistant pathologist at a local laboratory. I’m non-certified, and have learned by on-the-job training under an experienced pathologist for the past 3 years. Since I am not certified, I only work on "minor" specimens, while leaving the more complex ones for the pathologists to do. My eventual goal is to attend assistant pathology school, but until I get there, I want to learn as much as I can, building my experience and knowledge while I wait. To be accepted into the PA program, all schools require a BS degree, which I don’t have. I am 32, and have a BA degree in Philosophy and I am 1 year short of my BS in biology, but out of frustration at the educational system for undergraduate school. I quit my BS program and have not been to school for the past year. I know it might seem easier to just go back to school and finish my last year, but I don’t want spend more money just to sit in classes and be bored learning what will have little bearing on what I truly want to do. I now focus on my work, and I am serious about it to the point where I study anatomy and pathology in my spare time if you can believe that. I am hoping that my work experience at the lab combined with my prior degree and desire will suffice for the lack of a BS degree. My problem is that at my current job, I have "hit the wall" in terms of the learning curve, and I am looking to expand my horizons. The lab I work at rarely does autopsies, and this is where I want to move on to, so, I am looking for a job as an autopsy assistant. I am single and have no children, and would be willing to move anywhere in the country, from Washington to Florida, from Maine to California, just to have a job as one. I can pick and move in a few weeks notice. Money is not important (as long as I can eat and have a roof over my head in a fairly safe neighborhood), but gaining experience is. As you can see, my desire and determination are quite strong, but I know the jobs are few. I was wondering if anyone perhaps knows of any positions available where a non-certified applicant would be considered, or if anyone could give me any advice regarding my situation, and perhaps my next step. Thanks in advance,
Ed
What is an "assistant pathologist?" Do you mean "pathology
assistant????" There’s a world of difference. A pathologist is an
M.D., last time I checked. Pathology assistants used to be called
"dieners." Are they still called that?
Just off the top of my head, without a degree, depending upon the
complexity of what you are doing for the pathologist you’re working
with, would it be a problem to insure you for liability? If it would
be, and I don’t know this as I don’t work in that part of the lab, then
that could be a major problem.
My sister-in-law is currently enrolled in PA school. She is a former
registered ASCP medical technologist. The number of applicants at her
school was so high that she literally had to wait overnight in line to
apply, as they were only going to take the first 50 applicants in line
that had the correct background. You will be seriously hampered without
a degree. Even though she had a B.S. in M.T. degree, she had to go back
and take other courses to qualify for PA school, as some of her courses
were taken too long ago (she’s 45 years old and in her second year and
went to college in the early 70′s).
I don’t think I’m wrong in saying that in science, credentials mean a
LOT. Rethink not finishing up your biology courses. It might not have
direct bearing, but if I were hiring and I had to pick between equally
pleasant candidates, I would probably choose the degreed person.
Sorry. It shows you put in the time. Science courses are like a
gauntlet that you must run. When you finish, people know what you’ve
been through. Everyone gets frustrated. It’s probably better to get
over your peevishness and do it.
Judy Dilworth, M.T. (ASCP)
Microbiology
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
Edward Dombrowski wrote:
> Hello, I was hoping if someone could give me some help or advice
> on finding a job. I currently work as an assistant pathologist at a
> local laboratory. I’m non-certified, and have learned by on-the-job
> training under an experienced pathologist for the past 3 years. Since
> I am not certified, I only work on "minor" specimens, while leaving
> the more complex ones for the pathologists to do. My eventual goal is
> to attend assistant pathology school, but until I get there, I want to
> learn as much as I can, building my experience and knowledge while I
> wait. To be accepted into the PA program, all schools require a BS
> degree, which I don’t have. I am 32, and have a BA degree in
> Philosophy and I am 1 year short of my BS in biology, but out of
> frustration at the educational system for undergraduate school. I quit
> my BS program and have not been to school for the past year. I know it
> might seem easier to just go back to school and finish my last year,
> but I don’t want spend more money just to sit in classes and be bored
> learning what will have little bearing on what I truly want to do. I
> now focus on my work, and I am serious about it to the point where I
> study anatomy and pathology in my spare time if you can believe that.
> I am hoping that my work experience at the lab combined with my prior
> degree and desire will suffice for the lack of a BS degree. My problem
> is that at my current job, I have "hit the wall" in terms of the
> learning curve, and I am looking to expand my horizons. The lab I work
> at rarely does autopsies, and this is where I want to move on to, so,
> I am looking for a job as an autopsy assistant. I am single and have
> no children, and would be willing to move anywhere in the country,
> from Washington to Florida, from Maine to California, just to have a
> job as one. I can pick and move in a few weeks notice. Money is not
> important (as long as I can eat and have a roof over my head in a
> fairly safe neighborhood), but gaining experience is. As you can see,
> my desire and determination are quite strong, but I know the jobs are
> few. I was wondering if anyone perhaps knows of any positions
> available where a non-certified applicant would be considered, or if
> anyone could give me any advice regarding my situation, and perhaps my
> next step. Thanks in advance, Ed
Ed,
as a pathologist I hate to "rain on your parade" as it were…but the reality
is, you will never get any farther if you don’t go back to university. More
hospitals that hire Pathology Assistants want people who have the training to
do all aspects of work with Pathologists, that means complex specimens(-Not
just biopsies-), Autopsies and medical photography. many places require not
just BS in Biology with pathology Assistant training but Masters degree
Pathology Assistant. If you just want to work in Autopsies you could try
training as a Diener where you would work in Forensic pathology
departments/Medical examiner offices or in Funeral homes.Of course this may be
locale specific, the above is true for the East Coast. I do not know what is
required for the West Coast or midwest for example. You might try the American
Society of Clinical Pathology( they have a website) to see the alternative
pathways available.
MJRobinsonDO
MRobin7403 wrote in message
<20000210220633.22492.00002…@ng-cq1.aol.com>…
>Ed,
<snip>
If you just want to work in Autopsies you could try
>training as a Diener where you would work in Forensic pathology
>departments/Medical examiner offices or in Funeral homes.
>MJRobinsonDO
Ed:
I am not a lawyer.
Before you consider a career as a diener, working for the government in
Forensic Pathology, please know that by doing so, the dissections you will
be assisting in are "forced" government dissections. There is no consent by
your victim or their family. Know that some of these victims and family
members will despise you for the rest of your life and theirs.
As a government employee (agent), you will be required to take an oath
swearing that you will uphold the constitutions (U.S. and state) and the
laws. The basic U.S. and state constitution, statute and administrative
code books amount to about 400 volumes. Will you know what is in them? No
lawyer knows them all. If you don’t know what’s in them how can you swear
to uphold what’s in them and not violate what’s in them?
If you do violate what’s in them (just one little sentence), one of
these pissed off family members may be able to sue you in your personal
capacity for violation of constitutional rights, and maybe press criminal
charges for the same thing. Remember, you can’t claim you didn’t know about
the law; you took an oath to uphold them all.
And the law claimed to have been violated may have nothing to do with
the clinical aspects of actually performing the autopsy itself.
Further, as a government agent, not only can you, personally, be sued
for violating one of these laws, but if YOU see another government agent
violate one which deprives a citizens of any little right and YOU don’t do
something immediately to stop it, YOU are just as culpable as they and can
still be sued.
Here are just 5 of the thousands of Federal laws. The first 3 are for
law suits, the last two are criminal. They are extremely broad and are
designed to protect American citizens from government agents. When you see
the word "injure"; the first definition of "injure" in the legal
dictionaries is to "deprive someone of their rights". When you see the
phrase "color of law" or "color of office", it means "government employee".
Wayne
CIVIL ACTIONS
United States Code Title 42 Section 1983. Civil action for deprivation of
rights
Every person who, under color of any statute, ordinance, regulation, custom,
or usage, of any State or Territory or the District of Columbia, subjects,
or causes to be subjected, any citizen of the United States or other person
within the jurisdiction thereof to the for an act deprivation of any rights,
privileges, or immunities secured by the Constitution and laws, shall be
liable to the party injured in an action at law, suit in equity, or other
proper proceeding for redress, except that in any action brought against a
judicial officer or omission taken in such officer’s judicial capacity,
injunctive relief shall not be granted unless a declaratory decree was
violated or declaratory relief was unavailable. For the purposes of this
section, any Act of Congress applicable exclusively to the District of
Columbia shall be considered to be a statute of the District of Columbia.
United States Code Tile 42 Section. 1985. Conspiracy to interfere with civil
rights
(3) Depriving persons of rights or privileges
If two or more persons in any State or Territory conspire or go in disguise
on the highway or on the premises of another, for the purpose of depriving,
either directly or indirectly, any person or class of persons of the equal
protection of the laws, or of equal privileges and immunities under the
laws; or for the purpose of preventing or hindering the constituted
authorities of any State or Territory from giving or securing to all persons
within such State or Territory the equal protection of the laws; or if two
or more persons conspire to prevent by force, intimidation, or threat, any
citizen who is lawfully entitled to vote, from giving his support or
advocacy in a legal manner, toward or in favor of the election of any
lawfully qualified person as an elector for President or Vice President, or
as a Member of Congress of the United States; or to injure any citizen in
person or property on account of such support or advocacy; in any case of
conspiracy set forth in this section, if one or more persons engaged therein
do, or cause to be done, any act in furtherance of the object of such
conspiracy, whereby another is injured in his person or property, or
deprived of having and exercising any right or privilege of a citizen of the
United States, the party so injured or deprived may have an action for the
recovery of damages occasioned by such injury or deprivation, against any
one or more of the conspirators.
United States Code, Title 42, Section 1986 Action for neglect to prevent
Every person who, having knowledge that any of the wrongs conspired to be
done, and mentioned in section 1985 of this title, are about to be
committed, and having power to prevent or aid in preventing the commission
of the same, neglects or refuses so to do, if such wrongful act be
committed, shall be liable to the party injured, or his legal
representatives, for all damages caused by such wrongful act, which such
person by reasonable diligence could have prevented; and such damages may be
recovered in an action on the case; and any number of persons guilty of such
wrongful neglect or refusal may be joined as defendants in the action; and
if the death of any party be caused by any such wrongful act and neglect,
the legal representatives of the deceased shall have such action therefor,
and may recover not exceeding $5,000 damages therein, for the benefit of the
widow of the deceased, if there be one, and if there be no widow, then for
the benefit of the next of kin of the deceased. But no action under the
provisions of this section shall be sustained which is not commenced within
one year after the cause of action has accrued.
CRIMINAL ACTIONS
United States Code Title 18 Section 241. Conspiracy against rights
If two or more persons conspire to injure, oppress, threaten, or intimidate
any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District in
the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him by
the Constitution or laws of the United States, or because of his having so
exercised the same; or
If two or more persons go in disguise on the highway, or on the premises of
another, with intent to prevent or hinder his free exercise or enjoyment of
any right or privilege so secured –
They shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years,
or both; and if death results from the acts committed in violation of this
section or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap,
aggravated sexual abuse or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or
an attempt to kill, they shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for
any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death.
United States Code Title 18 Section 242. Deprivation of rights under color
of law
Whoever, under color of any law, statute, ordinance, regulation, or custom,
willfully subjects any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth,
Possession, or District to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or
immunities secured or protected by the Constitution or laws of the United
States, or to different punishments, pains, or penalties, on account of such
person being an alien, or by reason of his color, or race, than are
prescribed for the punishment of citizens, shall be fined under this title
or imprisoned not more than one year, or both; and if bodily injury results
from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include
the use, attempted use, or threatened use of a dangerous weapon, explosives,
or fire, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten
years, or both; and if death results from the acts committed in violation of
this section or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap,
aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or
an attempt to kill, shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned for any
term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death.
Hi, Edward!
I’m not the right person for your advise cause I also need an advise from you, if its possible.
I’m currently doing a pathology course in Australia, and this is my last year.
I would like to know if you can help me , finding a job, i will more than happy, I wouldn’t mind if I have to travel all the way to U.S.A , cause I’m 21yrs old and single .Thanks for your help.
Gise
Edward Dombrowski <calig…@surfsouth.com> wrote in message news:VyCo4.931$0p1.32777@news4.giganews.com…
Hello,
I was hoping if someone could give me some help or advice on finding a job. I currently work as an assistant pathologist at a local laboratory. I’m non-certified, and have learned by on-the-job training under an experienced pathologist for the past 3 years. Since I am not certified, I only work on "minor" specimens, while leaving the more complex ones for the pathologists to do. My eventual goal is to attend assistant pathology school, but until I get there, I want to learn as much as I can, building my experience and knowledge while I wait. To be accepted into the PA program, all schools require a BS degree, which I don’t have. I am 32, and have a BA degree in Philosophy and I am 1 year short of my BS in biology, but out of frustration at the educational system for undergraduate school. I quit my BS program and have not been to school for the past year. I know it might seem easier to just go back to school and finish my last year, but I don’t want spend more money just to sit in classes and be bored learning what will have little bearing on what I truly want to do. I now focus on my work, and I am serious about it to the point where I study anatomy and pathology in my spare time if you can believe that. I am hoping that my work experience at the lab combined with my prior degree and desire will suffice for the lack of a BS degree. My problem is that at my current job, I have "hit the wall" in terms of the learning curve, and I am looking to expand my horizons. The lab I work at rarely does autopsies, and this is where I want to move on to, so, I am looking for a job as an autopsy assistant. I am single and have no children, and would be willing to move anywhere in the country, from Washington to Florida, from Maine to California, just to have a job as one. I can pick and move in a few weeks notice. Money is not important (as long as I can eat and have a roof over my head in a fairly safe neighborhood), but gaining experience is. As you can see, my desire and determination are quite strong, but I know the jobs are few. I was wondering if anyone perhaps knows of any positions available where a non-certified applicant would be considered, or if anyone could give me any advice regarding my situation, and perhaps my next step. Thanks in advance,
Ed
> Before you consider a career as a diener, working for the government in
>Forensic Pathology, please know that by doing so, the dissections you will
>be assisting in are "forced" government dissections.
Wayne,
Whoa!! i have read a few other of your posts here about pathologists>>>>Do
tell me why you are expressing so much hatred towards our porfession?? What
have we ever done to you??? Pathology is an honored medical specialty and you
are making it sound like we are Dr. Frankensteins out to dismember the
populace. I am not a forensic pathologist, howver not all forensic
pathologists are slaves of the government. And those i know that do work for
the government do not work for the feds but for the states or counties. This
people are underpaid and perform a useful service. Who else will tell the
police the someone who they thought commited suicide was actually murdered??
Who else is going to find the essential information needed to put a poisoner
behind bars?? Who is going to tell the police that a little kid who supposedly
dies in his sleep was actually shaken to death or abused???
Please think about your rabid replies before you post them.
Wayne
Why was your daughter’s heart kept? was it to try to establish an exact
cause of death – there are cardiomyopathies that are genetically predisposed
and accurate classification can have serious implications for other family
members. I doubt the pathologist kept the heart "for kicks", interest,
research or any other reason beyond carrying out the investigation into your
daughter’s death in as comprehensive manner as possible
Ivan.
Ivan Robinson wrote in message <89g1i9$3q…@plutonium.btinternet.com>…
>Wayne
>Why was your daughter’s heart kept? was it to try to establish an exact
>cause of death – there are cardiomyopathies that are genetically
predisposed
>and accurate classification can have serious implications for other family
>members. I doubt the pathologist kept the heart "for kicks", interest,
>research or any other reason beyond carrying out the investigation into
your
>daughter’s death in as comprehensive manner as possible
Hi Dr. Robinson:
Good to hear from you again. Hope everything is OK with the family and
yourself. How was that "holiday" last fall where you took the other Dr. to
that most romantic of cities?
Cardiomyopathies? I work with a guy who’s son died about 5 weeks before my
daughter died. The 10 year old was out one Saturday afternoon playing
sports and came home really tired. He laid down early and died during the
night. The autopsy showed that he had a congenital heart defect that was
hereitary. A test allegedly showed that the condition was inherited from
his mother’s side. Allegedly ,medication given to the wife and siblings
should prevent a reconnence in the family (I suppose along with medical
maintenance). Some Dr. asked if he could keep the son’s heart for
"research". The family agreed.
In my state (and probably others, if not all) medical exaiminers /
coroners cannot keep organs. Had it been my child, I would not have allowed
it, for any reason. I would rather die myself, or see another die, than
save my own hide at the expense of a child who has already suffered the most
horrible thing in the universe, death; and the second most horrible thing in
the universe, dissection; and the third most horrible thing in the universe,
sexual mollestation. I don’t think highly of this person for condeming his
son to spend eternity without a heart.
What made you think that the medical examiner / coroner kept my
daughter’s heart? My previous post? I said "Because of them my daughter’s
heart is now a piece of garbage" I didn’t say he kept it. What he did was
cut out her heart, cut open her heart, cut out a piece of her heart, (said
piece is now in a thin blue plastic cup with about 10 other pieces of my
daughter, which I eventually expect to get back) throw what was left of her
heart in a plastic trash bag, and shove the trash bag God knows where, into
her mutilated body. I expect he poured the very blood of her heart down the
sewer.
Wayne
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
>Ivan.
Wayne
You are right – I jumped to the wrong conclusion, I thought the pathologist
kept the heart v- apologies
Ivan
>Since you dissectionists know what you are doing is abnormal, as proven by
>the fact that you will not allow family members to watch while you do it
Wayne,
I dont agree with you here.. If family members wish to observe an autopsy or
have thier designated person watch the autopsy, I for one have no reason to
keep them from performing this. I do not keep people from observing a post. We
allow medical students and other staff members observe autopsies as learning
experiences. I would prefer that they do attend. Otherwise they will not learn
from thier mistakes. I am sorry you had such a bad experience with your
daughters autopsy. I personally will not do an autopsy without appropriate
consent. Who provided the consent for your daughter’s? The appropriate consent
is always next of kin. Husband if married, parent if not or borther or sister
or child if parent not living and not married. you would have to specify of
course the circumstances behind the autopsy of course. I expect because you
are so agaisnt the governement, that it was an accidental death or perhaps a
murder.
MRobin7403 wrote in message
<20000306212433.02604.00000…@ng-fm1.aol.com>…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
>>Since you dissectionists know what you are doing is abnormal, as proven by
>>the fact that you will not allow family members to watch while you do it
>Wayne,
> I dont agree with you here.. If family members wish to observe an autopsy
or
>have thier designated person watch the autopsy, I for one have no reason to
>keep them from performing this. I do not keep people from observing a
post. We
>allow medical students and other staff members observe autopsies as
learning
>experiences. I would prefer that they do attend. Otherwise they will not
learn
>from thier mistakes. I am sorry you had such a bad experience with your
>daughters autopsy. I personally will not do an autopsy without appropriate
>consent. Who provided the consent for your daughter’s?
The government, always backed up by their ever present, if usually
unnoticeable, guns. It was a suicide. I’ll let you know more after my
court stuff is finished. IMHO, they screwed up.
The appropriate consent
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
>is always next of kin. Husband if married, parent if not or borther or
sister
>or child if parent not living and not married. you would have to specify
of
>course the circumstances behind the autopsy of course. I expect because
you
>are so agaisnt the governement, that it was an accidental death or perhaps
a
>murder.
>he government, always backed up by their ever present, if usually
>unnoticeable, guns. It was a suicide. I’ll let you know more after my
>court stuff is finished
Wayne,
I am sorry about the way your daughter died. There is absolutely nothing you
could do…if she was a suicide, it is LAW that an autopsy is performed. You
are bucking not only the state but I also believe Federal law.
I hope you find relief in the result of your court case, but obviously the
guilt is more than you can handle.
I am sorry
MJ
MRobin7403 wrote in message
<20000314225848.02157.00001…@ng-fe1.aol.com>…
>>he government, always backed up by their ever present, if usually
>>unnoticeable, guns. It was a suicide. I’ll let you know more after my
>>court stuff is finished
>Wayne,
> I am sorry about the way your daughter died. There is absolutely nothing
you
>could do…if she was a suicide, it is LAW that an autopsy is performed.
You
>are bucking not only the state but I also believe Federal law.
Actually, as far as I know, if the death happens in a state, only state law
applies, except maybe in limited circumstances, like if you die on a
military base, or trying to blow up a nuclear reactor, or some other thing
that lets the Feds get jurisdiction.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
>I hope you find relief in the result of your court case, but obviously the
>guilt is more than you can handle.
>I am sorry
>MJ
A recent report on Job Satisfaction included the following:
Federal workers who help explore space or protect the environment are among
the most satisfied with their jobs, while those who enforce immigration and
food safety rules are the least happy. Overall, 60% of federal employees say
they are very or somewhat satisfied with their jobs, according to a US
government survey released 31 March 2000. That compares with about 62% in
similar private sector surveys, federal officials said. The highest
satisfaction scores went to the National Aeronautics and Space
Administration at 78%, even though it suffered numerous setbacks to its Mars
program.
<<<<<<<<<<
Whatever job you chose, you are going to spend a lot of your waking hours
doing it. Job satisfaction is *very* important, more so I would say than
salary. The public image and perception of your job is an important part of
job satisfaction.
The postings of Wayne have suggested deep dissatisfaction with the fact that
citizens do not have the freedom to opt out of autopsy. As people become
more informed though the Internet and other public media this
dissatisfaction amongst the public is very likely to grow, making people who
perform autopsies unpopular and even regarded with more horror than they are
now. It is as much the compulsion as the actual act that creates the
revulsion.
Of course much successful legal and scientific research is performed as a
result of autopsies, and even if people did have the freedom to opt out
this would not change at all. [relatively few people would take the trouble
to file the necessary forms etc.] Maybe some of those contemplating this as
a career should consider improving the public image of the profession by
campaigning in favour of allowing citizens the freedom to opt out.
After all, citizens have to opt *in* to transplantation of organs after they
have died, and in practical terms what is the difference between this and a
full autopsy?
–
Sincerely, John de Rivaz
my homepage links to Longevity Report, Fractal Report, my singles club for
people in Cornwall, music, Inventors’ report, an autobio and various other
projects: http://geocities.yahoo.com/longevityrpt
Wayne <wlogs…@erols.com> wrote in message
news:8c6f34$dhu$1@bob.news.rcn.net…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> MRobin7403 wrote in message
> <20000314225848.02157.00001…@ng-fe1.aol.com>…
> >>he government, always backed up by their ever present, if usually
> >>unnoticeable, guns. It was a suicide. I’ll let you know more after my
> >>court stuff is finished
> >Wayne,
> > I am sorry about the way your daughter died. There is absolutely nothing
> you
> >could do…if she was a suicide, it is LAW that an autopsy is performed.
> You
> >are bucking not only the state but I also believe Federal law.
> Actually, as far as I know, if the death happens in a state, only state
law
> applies, except maybe in limited circumstances, like if you die on a
> military base, or trying to blow up a nuclear reactor, or some other thing
> that lets the Feds get jurisdiction.
> >I hope you find relief in the result of your court case, but obviously
the
> >guilt is more than you can handle.
> >I am sorry
> >MJ